Interview withJoseph Pinto, M&G Investments

"Of course, we want to enter the German market"

The CEO of the asset management division M&G Investments on private markets, new products, and synergies with the insurance business.

"Of course, we want to enter the German market"

Mr. Pinto, what new products are you planning to sell in Europe?

In continental Europe, we already have a very established public markets business, meaning that M&G is better known as a house for investments traded on stock exchanges. But we have also been a significant investor in the private markets for more than 20 years. That will be the key to our growth in Europe. Our 86 billion euro private markets business includes investments in infrastructure, private loans and property. A major topic here is the democratisation of the asset class. We have just launched our first Eltif – a private corporate credit strategy – to facilitate access for investors.

What are the PruFund products all about?

Our PruFund offering is another strategy with a profit target that spans all asset classes, including private assets. The majority of the private assets and some of the liquidity is provided by M&G Investments. So, there are synergies between the Group's insurance and asset management businesses. The third point is that we can draw on the reserves to deliver an annualised return.

Doesn't something like this already exist?

It's similar to "Eurocontracts" in France. But we have a kind of smoothing mechanism by utilising the reserves. So, it's not the same as what is offered in the traditional continental European life insurance business.

And that is going down well?

Here in the UK, PruFund products have proven to be very attractive. We have seen significant flows in the first half of the year and that has continued throughout the rest of the year. We have a few distribution partners in the eurozone: one in Italy and one in Ireland.

How do you intend to proceed there?

We want to expand further in continental Europe. To this end, we are planning to test the strategy in some countries with large potential sales partners who understand life insurance products. Compared to other products from insurers, it offers them and their customers products, such as good diversification.

Are there problems with different taxation in the various markets?

We are still working on how to position the product. So far, taxation has not proved to be a problem. Because of Brexit, we have to make sure that we use a vehicle that is authorised for sale in the respective jurisdiction. Since 15% to 20% is invested in private assets, we also have to ensure that the vehicle can be purchased by retail customers. This is perhaps the biggest hurdle we face. But we have overcome it in Ireland and Italy.

Did you use a Ucits wrapper?

There are many ways to do this. But it is very technical and varies from country to country. In France, for example, there is "Eurocroissance". We are currently checking whether our product fulfils the requirements for these vehicles, which are only available there as insurance products. So, it is not just about fund products.

What is the situation in the German market?

We have just launched a study with a consultant specialising in life insurance. We believe that Germany is potentially a large market. Following the initial results, we now have to think about how to position the product and who our partners could be. Of course, we want to enter the German market.

Could you say a little more about the synergies between asset management and insurance business at M&G?

The PruFund products are part of this. We manage the assets for the insurance business, which wants an additional return to maximise value for its clients. We can build portfolios for certain strategies according to the needs of the insurance business and its risk-return-profile. On the other hand, the insurance business develops products that are also sold to third parties over time.

So, the insurance business provides the necessary critical mass?

Let's say it's an anchor customer for us. We see its employees as colleagues, but also as customers. We develop new investment ideas together. We test them before we sell it to them. Only then we sell it to third parties.

We hear from other asset managers that their own insurance business can be a demanding customer.

The colleagues have every right to be. It's also good if they demand a lot because I demand excellence from my employees.